Amid the Pirates’ awful start to the season and decision to fire manager Derek Shelton, there’s been some speculation on the possibility of the Bucs blowing things up and again refocusing on building up the farm system. Specifically, many fans have begun to wonder about the possibility of the Pirates dangling the final four and a half seasons of control over reigning NL Rookie of the Year and Cy Young finalist Paul Skenes. Unsurprisingly, there’s no real chances of that happening in 2025. Jon Heyman of the New York Post spoke to an unnamed Pirates executive who flatly told him, “No way, no chance, no how,” when the possibility of a Skenes trade was broached.
Any and all talk of a possible Skenes swap has been little more than wishful thinking from fans of other clubs. Much of the rumbling stems from ESPN’s Jeff Passan recent appearance on the Pat McAfee Show (video link). Passan never suggested a trade was likely or even plausible but opined that there’s at least “an argument to be made” that it’d be the right call, given the team’s immediate fall from postseason contention, their inability to score runs, and the unlikelihood of owner Bob Nutting spending to either surround Skenes with competitive players or to extend the team’s ace. Passan rightly pointed out that there will be teams asking about Skenes at this year’s trade deadline. Interest from other clubs is a given, but a trade has never seemed like a real possibility.
Skenes, the No. 1 pick in the 2023 draft, made his MLB debut less than one year after being selected and immediately cemented his place among baseball’s top arms. He started the All-Star Game for the NL last season, secured 23 of 30 first-place votes in NL Rookie of the Year balloting, and finished third in NL Cy Young voting. Since debuting last year on May 11, Skenes leads the majors with a 2.12 ERA. He ranks 14th in innings pitched (195 2/3), fourth in strikeout rate (30.6%), fourth in differential between his strikeout and walk rates (24.3%), third in FIP (2.54) and fourth in SIERA (2.89).
Skenes is already an ace in virtually every sense of the word. The Pirates were presumably hoping that by holding off his call to the majors until mid-May, they could strike the balance between having Skenes help improve on their 2023 win total (76) and keep him out of the big leagues long enough to prevent a Rookie of the Year win and that would grant him a full year of service regardless of his promotion date. Neither worked out. Skenes got that full year of service by virtue of his Rookie of the Year win, and the Pirates finished the 2024 season with the same 76-86 record they produced in 2023.
Because Skenes secured that full year of service, he’ll be controllable for “only” six seasons. He’s under Pirates control through the 2029 campaign. Had he missed out on the full year, that would’ve been pushed back to 2030.
If he stays healthy and continues on his current trajectory, Skenes figures to shatter records in arbitration. He’d reach arb eligibility in the 2026-27 offseason and go through the process three times before reaching free agency in the 2029-30 offseason. Barring an injury or unexpected decline, he’ll have a case for a mammoth contract in free agency — perhaps the largest signed by a pitcher. He’ll hit the open market heading into only his age-28 season.
Extending Skenes right now would already require the largest contract in Pirates history by a wide margin. Pittsburgh has never given out a contract larger than Bryan Reynolds’ seven-year, $100MM extension. Skenes would more than double that on an extension and could even triple that commitment. It’s virtually unfathomable to think Nutting would ever pay that much for a single player. As shown in MLBTR’s Contract Tracker, the Pirates have only spent a combined $357MM in extensions dating back to 2016. They’ve spent even less in free agency; their combined free agent spending dating back to the 2011-12 offseason totals $302MM (Contract Tracker link).
Given the Pirates’ penurious spending habits, an eventual trade of Skenes feels like an inevitability — just not in the near term. Moving their ace while he’s still earning scarcely more than the league minimum simply doesn’t feel rooted in reality. One could argue that Skenes’ trade value will never be higher, and there’s some inherent truth that as he incrementally inches toward free agency, the diminishing amount of club control will impact his value. However, trading Skenes at any point when he has multiple years of control remaining would net the Pirates a monumental return — perhaps on par with or even exceeding the Nationals’ outrageous return for Juan Soto. The gap between the trade value of four years of Skenes and two years of Skenes is not as large as the gap between two years of Skenes and one year of Skenes.
As Skenes’ price tag climbs in arbitration, a trade will become more plausible. For the time being, even with the 2025 season all but lost, the Bucs understandably plan to hang onto their ace. He’s surely a draw for ticket sales and merchandise, and if the Pirates have any designs on a more competitive roster in 2026, it’s surely built around a pitching staff that can be anchored by Skenes, Mitch Keller, top prospect Bubba Chandler and a collection of talented, controllable arms that also includes Mike Burrows, Thomas Harrington, Braxton Ashcraft, Hunter Barco, Bailey Falter and Johan Oviedo.
In other news, the sun is bright.
I think I missed something though. The article states “…on the possibility of the Bucs blowing things up…”
It means that they were competing this season and last year?
blowing up is another term for rebuilding
Rebuilding usually implies something was already built.
They are rebuilding their rebuilding attempt yet again
yeah, jn 2021 they started rebuilding and it obviously failed.
They will probably do it again but under a different GM because Cherington is gone after this season
😂
They are rebuilding the lie that ownership is attempting to field a competitive ballclub, otherwise they might get kicked off of welfare.
There’s been some media talk and a post about Skenes being traded, but it’s all been just fun questions about whether they should. since the Pirates are so bad. There’s been nothing substantial and the media that I’m aware of didn’t even attempt to suggest otherwise. It’s all just “what if” baseball talk.
When or if you blow up a team and start over..YOU DONT DO IT BY TRADING A UOUNG FUTURE HOF…these people need to get out more and smell fresh air
Right. There’s no chance they’d trade a long term controllable ace in his first full year. Ridiculous.
It’s dark and hell is hot
And water is wet…
Trading him just gives them more players they won’t extend and will end up letting go. Until there is an ownership change this team will never succeed for more than a season or 2.
“Players they won’t extend”…everyone always thinks “spending money” and “extending players” is magical the solution to contending for small market teams.
For the Prates “extending players” is like their 6th biggest problem. The real problem in Pittsburgh is the complete lack of young(or old) players worthy of extensions.
Where are all those high 1st round picks the Bucs got and accumulated for years? Identifying, drafting and developing good young players is the real problem in Pittsburgh not “extensions”.
I think they’re both problems. It’s pretty hard to get a critical mass of players all up and producing within their cheap years.
One of the major issues I have with this team is development. This should be a top priority of any small market team. The Pirates simply cannot do it
Remember when they would churn out pitchers? I guess they are back to that with this next crop but it was gone for years. They were like Tampa for awhile.
When?
That’s why you trade Skenes-to get players from an organization that actually can develop players.
first you need a player development system that actually develops majors league players.
The Pirates don’t have that under the current management.
which is probably why Nutting won’t allow Skenes and be traded this year
Nutting might be cheap but he’s not stupid
@showmebb Pirates have no problem developing pitching, hitting is the complete other problems. Development of hitters is Pittsburghs biggest issue. I am hopeful Matt Hague can turn that around after years of Andy Haines.
So to say Pirates are developing pitchers, is devaluing their Pitching through the years. Guys like Luis Ortiz, Mitch Keller, Jared Jones, Bednar, Jameson Tallion, Charlie Morton, Garret Cole, and others, have been bright spots in development. Now name that many hitters Pittsburgh who developed. I can start, Andrew McCutchen……
@mlb You are commenting on article about one of them(Skenes). Mlodzinski is in rotation as well. Hayes is at 3B, Davis splitting catching duties, Gonzalez on IL with able injury. Then there’s Hogblum who they failed to sign who went in next draft who has been starting for A’s. Baz who was traded has been starting for Rays.
Quite a few of their top picks are around. I do think they have problems finding players later in the draft. Finding talent later in the draft and internationally is how teams build depth throughout organization and have a system that generates talent.
They are not signing high priced players. The Marlisn right now are the same situation. Except those guys have no money. NO MONEY! There is no rebuilding as its a constant rebuild. The only thing that will kill them is some sort of eventual salary floor.
They have not signed a free agent to aulti year deal since 2016. 10 years with only 1 year deals for any free agent talent to help strengthen roster.
No one is ever buying the Pirates with the intention of spending a bunch of money.
The Pirates will always be ran like a small market team, regardless of who the owner is.
According to Bob Nightengale, multiple owners have confirmed information the MLBPA received that shows the Pirates are one of the most profitable teams in MLB. Nutting simply pockets “a huge chunk” of the revenue sharing money he receives every year.
si.com/mlb/pirates/news/pittsburgh-pirates-rank-on…
*Nobody* is asserting the Pirates should try to spend like the Yankees, Dodgers or Mets, because they can’t. Even if they could spend like that, there’s absolutely no guarantee of winning anyway.
Much of the Pirates problem is they haven’t drafted/developed players very well since Nutting bought the team, which could at least be partially attributable to money. Not spending on free agents is 9ne thing. Not spending enough on scouting and player development is quite another. For example, under Nutting’s ownership they may lead MLB in failed 1st round catchers (#4 pick Tony Sanchez and #14 Reese McGuire were total busts, and #1 pick Henry Davis has struggled.) Then there are other 1st round busts like 3B Will Craig and OF Travis Swaggerty.
Bob Nutting is worth $1.1 billion.
Not the richest owner but he can and should be doing a better job with HIS team!
Or SELL it!!!
No MLB team actually loses money. Its all accounting. They don’t include many revenue sources, like parking for example.
Also, this may be simplistic, but let me put it out there because no one seems to realize this simple fact, if you put a better product on the field, more fans come. and what do fans do at the ball park? spend money
The Pirates could easily have the third most marketable player in the game after Ohtani and Judge and have not made him a commodity to cash-in on.
Good thing theyll be able to dump that $4mm Tommy Pham contract at the trade deadline for a High A prospect, thatll help!
@Darren If the right owner(s) come along they by all means could build a competitive roster. Pirates and Steelers have succeeded in the same market in their leagues fairly recently.
You can’t compare another league to any MLB team. MLB is the only major sports league giving out 500 million dollars in contracts yearly. NFL has a salary cap unlike MLB. A small market club can easily compete in the NFL. Steelers, Ravens, Buccaneers, Packers, Vikings, Chiefs, and other organizations that are classified as small markets, have done well in being competitive. Large markets like Cowboys, Bears, Rams, Chargers, Giants, Texans, and Raiders struggle to have winning seasons and/or postseason appearances. Large markets in the NFL can’t buy all the good players like Large Markets in the MLB. You just can’t compare NBA, NHL, or NFL to MLB. It’s does a huge disservice to any league comparison and ability to spend money.
I’m aware that the economics are different ad are the rules. But ultimately theres enough $ in that.market to sustain a competitive pro team .
And the NHL who you completely ignore there only recently has had a cap. But PIT was able to spend and build a winner prior to that. DET was able to outspend large market teams like LAK and NYR and still be profitable. DET also hung with the big market teams in MLB spending from 2006 til the window shut. And contrary to popular belief they were profitable nearly every one of those years.
PIT, DET, CLE, etc… can not spend the crazy amount recently spent by LAD and NYM that is undeniable. But they have the ability to spend much more than fans believe. NYY have outspent others and have had more revenue since time and memorial, yes the economics have ever evolved but other teams have contend throughout all that time. The current spending by NYM and LAD might be enough to spark change, we ll see when CBA expires. Regardless Nutting has been a parasite sucking $ from the PIT area and it’s fans and putting little back into the team. There is zero reason to make excuses for him, fans and that city deserve better.
key wording is…”this year” they will trade him eventually I feel
Of course they will trade him. The few they have signed long term are not stars. Skenes is a game changer. We all knew he would be eventually traded once he was drafted.
How about you invest in hitting and not making Pham your big free agent hitter
Who wants to sign with this dumpster fire?
Only guys who can’t get offers elsewhere.
I’m sure vets look at how they handled Tellez and Taylor last year. Specifically Tellez being cut before he reached another bonus.
BC is at about 25% success rate on his FA signings. Which is actually higher than the team batting average
Today’s “No $hit, Sherlock” post of the day…
They pirates are a mess of an organization but are not dumb enough to trade a guy who is a bona fide ace DURING HIS SECOND YEAR OF TEAM CONTROL…c’mon how this is even being spoken about is a joke
Gunnar Henderson for Paul Skenes, straight up.
(Signed ‘MLB ’25 The Show’ for each fan base)
…jokes. Just jokes y’all.
That is actually a trade to think about. It’s been awhile to see star players traded for each other.
Henderson for Skenes could bring our O’s back to playing .400 ball! Of course, Skenes would need TJR after 3 starts….
MLBTR blowing up a Jon Heyman article using a bunch of statistics…..
This is what one gets in the age of:
Clicks = Revenue / Income.
Sebastian Walcott might change some things.
Along with 10 more prospects and players.
Can they trade Bob Nutting though?
Swap him and the Monforts. They all just need a change of scenery.
Bob Nutting for Jerry Reinsdorf? Change of scenery might help both.
Depends, are you demoting him to a mascot or bat boy in this hypothetical trade? No one wants him as an owner. That’s like trying to give away the flu.
I guarantee you that there’s a least one person out there who would eagerly accept the flu, for whatever reason
If Skenes was traded this year, you might as well just fold the Pirates. Trading him for prospects will do one of two things. Either bring back several guys that will fail in the majors or will bring back one or two that will be successful, but will have to be traded soon afterward because they cannot afford them long term.
I hope Cherington’s successor (he’s gone at some point this year) gets a better return for Skenes after the 2026 season than Huntington got for Cole.
Cole was coming off a poor season when he was traded. That didnt help.
Exactly
Dealing Cole when his value and salary were low for a quantity-driven return was asinine.
He was coming off two fairly mediocre years. It’s easy to say NOW that they dealt him when his value was low. But at the time, it was equally possible that his slide would continue and he would be Jameson Taillon. I am not knocking Taillon, who is a good big league starter, but no one would really be calling him a top of the rotation guy either.
Of course the Pirates didn’t really get much out of the Jameson Taillon trade either, so maybe that is not the best comp.
Cole was 2 years away from free agency, the Bucs should have gotten more for him just from that standpoint
They got 4 “name” prospects from the Astros. The haul was not that bad. Sure in hindsight it is easy to see that none of them worked out, but at the time I thought it was a pretty good haul for what could easily have been a #3 or #4 starter.
Cole did not truly put it altogether til after the trade. Musgrave and Moran were both 1st rd picks and headlines the prospect return. Moran stuck around MLB for a bit. Musgrove started to put it all together as well and had a pair of really nice seasons before battling injuries the last few years.
Except at the time Cole was not really a top of the line starter. He was more of a top of the rotation PROSPECT that didn’t hit his ceiling in Pittsburgh. And he was already 26, so there was not really a whole lot of belief that he was ever going to become what he became. Obviously that opinion changed once he got to Houston, but in Pittsburgh he pitched five full seasons and only one of them was really “ace-like.” And that was two years before the trade. The rest were middle of the road starter.
LOL at “if the Pirates have any designs on a more competitive roster in 2026”
They should have a good rotation in 26. Bubba and Skenes just bats
No you don’t trade him, you build around the current staff. Stop being so cheap Buccos⚾
We’ll pass your message on to Lord Nutting. Hopefully it’s the push he needs to get this done.
In 2027, Skenes will make at a minimum $11 million in arbitration.
In 2028 add 50-60% to that.
In 2029 more than $27 million.
Do those sound like numbers the Pirates are willing or able to pay?
I don’t think so either.
The big question is not IF they will trade him, it’s when.
Baseball cba expires at the end of 2026 season. Owners already talking about either a salary cap or floor. Fans and vendors will get screwed again in 2027.
Owners can’t set a floor or a cap. They have to negotiate it and players union is unwilling to negotiate at all on a cap.
The Pirates should trade Skenes, but not for nothing. He is great, but he is just one player. Their hitting is awful, and thats not going to improve unless they either sign guys (wont happen) or trade for some young hitters. They should be asking for a team’s 6 or 7 best prospects. There is no chance Skenes will resign with the Pirates. Every year that they don’t trade him he becomes less valuable and there is a higher chance of injury. Get a Soto like haul, or possibly even more. The Nationals are setup for years to come
I dont know any team is willing to trade 6-7 of their best prospects for skenes. I dont think their is a package that can land him that teams are willing to do.
@energel if no team wants to meet the Pirates asking price then they should keep him
That wouldn’t be their asking price.
The Nats are set up for years to come? How so?
@El Kabong Gore, Abrams, Wood, Hassell all came from the Soto trade. Those are 4 quality major league players, with Wood and Abrams having the potentials to be superstars. Not to mention Crews and Brady House
Superstars are few and far between. None of those players have done anything to suggest superstardom at this point, although Wood has been impressive. The Nats otherwise need a ton of pitching to compete for a playoff spot. They aren’t set up quite yet.
No superstars in that group. At least not yet.
All Star level is considered to be 4.0 WAR. None of those players have gotten to that level of play since that trade at the 2022 deadline. Wood will get there this season.
Superstar level is considered to be a 6.0 WAR season or higher. All of them combined have not reached that level yet. This year Wood, Abrams, and Gore should pass 6.0 WAR combined .
The haul from the Soto trade:
OF James Wood is hitting .285/.380/.538 with 12 HR and 30 RBI at age 22.
SP McKensie Gore looks like he’s (finally) turning into at least a #2 SP.. He currently leads the NL with 84 Ks in 56.1 IP.
.SS CJ Abrams (finally) has his head on straight and is hitting .313/.371/.569, and he’s only 24 yrs old.
Minor league RHP Jarlin Susana was the #1 pitcher in the 2022 international signing class. He regularly sits at 100 mph, and has a plus slider. He’s still got some control issues, but is only 21
Initially regarded as the best prospect in the Soto deal, OF Robert Hassell III is now “the other guy” in the deal. He was just called up when Dylan Crews was put on the IL. Hassell’s only 23 so there’s still time for him to develop.
On top of that, Susana isn’t even the #1 prospect in the system. That’s 21 yr old RHP Travis Sykora, To begin the season, MLB ranked the Nats system #13, and wrote that readers shouldn’t expect a “big drop” even though Crews won”t factor into the syetem’s midseason ranking. They’ve also got the #1 pick in the draft this year.
If the Nats bullpen wasn’t absolutely horrific (6.41 ERA 1.64 WHIP, including an awful 86 BB) they would be much closer to .500 despite getting very little offensively from a few positions because guys like 3B Brady House and 1B Yohandy Morales are still in the minors.
The Nats have been *very* patient with this rebuild. (Too patient for many Nats fans.) It was a complete system rebuild. Not just a rebuild of the MLB roster. Nobody ever has ” enough” pitching, and injuries can always alter a team’s trajectory, but right now the Nats *are* set up to hopefully compete f0r multiple years whenever Rizzo and ownership decide to really make a push toward being a playoff team again.
None of them have had a 4.0 WAR season. Combined they have not had a 6.0 WAR season. In 2+ seasons, the two main pieces have not played at an All Star level, let alone superstar level. No superstars in that group unless Wood improves. .
The Nationals bullpen has a 4.65 FIP. Still bad, but no where near as bad as their ERA. The reason for the high ERA is a complete lack of defense.
Susanna is not even on the 40 man roster.
@LFG No team 6 or 7 of beat prospects. To get 5 or 6 prospects it would most certainly be 2 or 3 lotto ticket type prospects. Probably 2 top prospects and 1 or 2 in the 10-20 range.
With 4 seasons of control left after this season his years of control remaining really not going to start diminishing the return until during the 2027 season.
Hey lfg..THE PIRATES ARENT EVEN THINKING ABOUT TRADING HIM…SOME PEOPLE JUST LIVE IN A FANTASY LAND..JUST LIKE THESE NATIONAL REPORTERS WHO REPORT MADE UP CRAP JUST TO GRT ATTENTION. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME ONE OF THESE IDIOTS WAS RIGHT?
@Cosmo21 Ever heard of Juan Soto and Mookie Betts? How about Luka Doncic for basketball?
Only Colorado is worse in wRC+ as a team. 66 to 71
Last season only Colorado and the White Sox were worse.
The Pirates are “improved” on the pitching side…from 20th to 18th.
Went from a 4.17 ERA to a 4.03 ERA. From 101 ERA+ to 104 ERA+.
The time to move Skenes is at the deadline this season. Before he gets hurt and while he is pitching well.
The Pirates should be able to bring back something like, and I am not saying the Red Sox will do this, but something like Anthony, Mayer, and at least 2 other top 15 prospects in the Red Sox organization. Guys like Early and Fitts after he returns. Probably a lottery ticket like Reyes or Delzine on top of that.
Would that be worth it long term? Probably.
Would that stave off the pitch forks from fans? Probably not,
Here is the most important question. If they keep him, will the Pirates be contenders before Skenes hits arbitration before the 2027 season? If he stays healthy, he is going to break records for arbitration salaries, and we all know the Pirates won’t pay the big bucks. So, will they be at a point to contend before he starts to get really expensive?
How long do you think they will keep him? To me it seems that not only are they not smart enough to put together a team worth watching, but they are not smart enough to trade him at the right time to maximize their leverage. Much like the Angels with Ohtani.
The Pirates probably hang on to him until 2027 and then once he starts costing them $10 million plus they try to sell at that deadline when he is just about to get very expensive. $25-30 million per year expensive.
4 and a half years is plenty time for the Pirates to sign some players, trade for some players, Bob nutting pass away. I have hope.
Already wasted 2 years so what’s changing in the next 4? And they have to extend or trade Skenes so it’s next 2 to 3 years.
Energel- Unlike most of my fellow common Pirate posters I have a good outlook.It is for the 2026 season.
Inasmuch as there may be a stoppage due to the contract negotiations between the Players Union and MLB,it could last until mid August.I see the Pirates winning 20 of the 32 game season as they generally do well early in the season.
They may even win a round in the playoffs.
I think that it will be tough to do better than that.
2026 will be full season
Sorry,then 2027.
He’s so valuable with this much control and that salary that no trade would really make sense.
It would take such a big package that it presumably wouldn’t make sense for the team getting him.
Agreed. Teams also need to consider the future value of the pieces they’re trading to get him. Your big league team has to be absolutely stacked while even the Dodgers aren’t in that position.
No chance Paul Skenes is traded ever by the Pirates….smh
When he is around $15M during year 2 of arb they will.
No Keller will gone by the time Skenes gets to arbitration
He may be there in year 1. He will be over $10 million for sure in year one.
I could not imagine
Given what a pathetic franchise this is and that the “rebuild” was an absolute train wreck, here’s hoping the entire front office is relieved of their duties and a young, hungry, visionary guy is hired. Re-staff scouting and player development and then burn it all down. Trade anyone who can bring back legitimate talent
Including this guy. Really, why keep him?
Build around Bubba, Griffin, Termarr and see you in ‘28
“No chance.”
LAD then offer Alex Freeland, Josue de Paula, River Ryan, and Nick Frasso for Skenes.
No chance is often as accurate as “untouchable.”
yeah Pirates looking for injured pitchers…
Ryan is hurt- Frasso doesn’t appear to be injured. The Bucs might push for Ferris in that scenario, but that not be ideal for LAD.
Frasso came off TJ and pitching awful with 5.73 ERA with 21 BB and 22 K in 33 innings well off his before TJ performances.
Ferris ain’t showing that well this year either, so Pirates would not deal Skenes for hapless pitchers in return
Exactly. The Dodgers and Yankees will be in a bidding war for him. They probably already are, behind closed doors.
Paddy fornicator…idiot
“No way, no chance, no how.” Yup—he’s gone.
A Skenes trade would need to cripple a franchise both short term and long term
Something like Tatis Jr, Jackson Merrill, Dylan Cease, Michael King, Nick Pivetta, Manny Machado, 5 top prospects plus $400m
Lindor, Soto, Alonso, Senga, 6 top prospects plus $700m
Skenes ain’t getting traded pre-arb unless Pit can name their price
Skenes is good, but he’s not THAT good.
No one is.
No prospect package would net Skenes, and it would take at least one contrable young all-star caliber ML player plus ML contributor,top prospects to get in the pirates to listen
No team is going to meet the price. The price would definitely cripple a franchise both short and long term to acquire Skenes atm.
If I was Ben Cherington, that would be my initial price tag and go from there
if you were Ben Cherington the last thing you would need to do is trade away one of your best pitchers in baseball when you’re in the last year of your contract and if you’re hoping to return next year
Thats hilarious. You write jokes for a late night show I take it.
Yes no way does Cherington get an extension he built this mess
We’re talking about Paul Skenes. Not Babe Ruth.
Tatis jr will come with a huge extra expense for all of the ringworm medicine he needs
The price would be one or two serviceable roster players, 3-5 blue chip prospects, 1 or 2 high floor low ceiling prospects and 2 or 3 lottery ticket prospects plus a comp pick.
Doubt any team can realistically meet that price.
it will be a max of 5 players. 2 blue chip, meaning top 50 overall, prospects. Two MLB ready prospects in the top 10-15 of that team’s prospect list. Plus probably a lottery ticket on top of that. Multiple teams CAN meet that price. Fewer are in contention and need a TOR starting pitcher to put them over the edge.
The teams that have a shot at him, a need, and have a good probability of contending are probably the Red Sox, Cubs, Guardians, and the Dodgers. Maybe the Tigers.
The Phillies have the prospects but probably don’t want to move Painter. Padres have the prospects but probably would be unwilling to move DeVries.
The Reds, Orioles, and White Sox have the prospects, but not the chance to contend.
Of course, they still need to milk all the promotional money they can out of him!
Suwinski, K-Hayes and Henry Davis all need to go in the hope a prospect or 2 is caught and makes some noise ⚾
So he is guaranteed to be traded by the deadline when the Pirates are 20 games out?
Mets have the prospects to get Skenes. He’s the ace to go all the way this year.
I don’t think so, but it’s possible. The Mets really don’t have a blue-chip prospect, and I think it’s going to take a really good one to headline a deal. Williams is good, but not a headliner for a trade.
Who were you thinking would be the pieces in a trade with the Mets.
They are likely to be 20 games out sooner than the deadline
What’s their attendance ? 4500 a game ? That is how many care
Pittsburgh is now, and always has been, a bad market for baseball.
Well well the Dick just woke up. He’s a man child who gets breastfeeds off of a mannequin
Whom ever ran with that story, and believed it!? Plain stupid!! Find another sport please!
Although, I would not trade Skenes if I were running Pitt, there are some compelling reasons trading him now could be the best option. In truth I don’t trade him just because the fans have had so little to watch for so long that it would be nice for them to feel like they have a true top talent in town.
The Pirates are going nowhere. They are not in a position for a run now, nor will they be in the next couple of years unless they decide to make major moves, and we all know they cannot.
Although they would take a hit in ticket sales, I have no idea what lower than already low means. Right now, Skenes is healthy, and he is filthy. More importantly, every team looks at him as their potential ace, or number 1b. His value may never be higher from a prospect haul perspective. The more expensive he gets in arbitration and closer to free agency, the lower the haul, and the less trade partners they will have left.
The fans will hate them for trading their best prospect in decades, but they will hate them more when they will eventually trade him anyway for far less in return. The way the Pirates run this team financially it makes sense to approach their problem from looking at this from a totality of controlled talent (all typically low paid in relation to bigger market teams).
Are they better off with one amazing talent with very little support around him? Are the Pirates willing to surround him with talent by paying amounts of money they have never been willing to pay before to fill out a title contender? If the answer is no to the first, and half measures to the second……………………………..
Are the Pirates better served with Skenes, or are they better served with another franchise handing over as many as 5 top prospects. Skenes, at this moment can realistically expect a return from another team of the Pirates picks. As an example, right now, it would not be unreasonable for the Pirates to demand Anthony, Mayer, Arrias and Perales. The Red Sox may not do it, but that is the kind of return you are looking at for a generational ace starter. That is what a, yet uninjured, Skenes looks like. What does he look like after a couple of short stints on the DL for (insert reason here), God forbid an arm surgery, after a few years from now earning big arbitration numbers?
I don’t trade him now, but just so the fans get to watch him. I will HAVE to trade him eventually and I know it, and the fans know it. There is no dollar amount I would be able to expect him to accept to play in Pittsburg, especially since he already thinks the Pirates aren’t willing to spend to surround him with talent as is, and they aren’t even spending for him yet.
Slow day in baseball. Let’s talk about trading Paul Skenes‼️
He’ll continue to waste bullets in Pittsburgh. Hopefully by the time he gets the chance to leave, he won’t be spent. If I was him, i’d put myself on a pitch count restriction.
apparently you don’t know much about how contracts are structured Wild
Pitchers can’t determine how long they can stay in a game, only the manager can
SMH
As a pirates diehard, why would anyone think they are going to trade him after one year of service time? He’s not going anywhere.
Steve..because people need to believe anything that comes out of an idiots mouth. Or whatever they read online, they go around telling the crap to whomever will listen.
They’ll keep him until they have to pay him
They’re paying him now
Plus who has the goods to get him with a package better then padres gave up to get Soto who had 2 years remaining of arb? The only team who has close to ML ready talent to get him would be Boston and I don’t see them giving up Anthony or Mayer. It wouldn’t make sense for them when they probably have the room to add a top FA starting pitcher in the off season
Roughly 9 teams have enough top heavy talent in the minors to get it done strictly on prospects. Most of the others would have to throw in mlb rostered controllable guys to get it done.
Strictly thinking within the box, without having to get very creative, the Pirates have nearly the entire league they can make a deal with. If they wanted.
If the Pirates continue to lose money – as they did in 2024 – they SHOULD trade Skenes before he becomes expensive in arbitration.
I think Bob Nutting should sell the team if the Pirates continue to lose money. Clearly he isn’t capable nor competent enough to operate as the owner of the Pirates organization.
Nobody wants to buy a team that plays in an historically bad market like Pittsburgh.
Nutting should wait until his lease on PNC Park expires after the 2030 season and then move the team to a good market.
NOBODY wants to buy them, while they are playing in Pittsburgh, an historically bad market for baseball.
Baseball is broken you have to commit real money to even get scraps because they don’t have a cap or floor
Nutting said that he had offers on the team and was not going to sell. We know that Cuban made an offer.
Nutting has never had a payroll over 100m but is losing $ LOL
That’s a lot of coke and escorts.
The team lost money because Pittsburgh is an historically bad market for baseball – even when the team is one of the best in MLB.
2015: 3rd straight playoff season,. (th of 15 NL teams in attendance.
1990s: Can’t sell out NLCS games.
1979.: Won the World Series. 10th of 12 NL teams in attendance.
2023: 26th of 30 in total revenues.
The Pirates are not losing money. Unless Nutting is paying himself a $50 million salary and considering that part of the expenses, they are making a hefty profit.
Read the investigation into their finances for yourself.
dkpittsburghsports.com/team/site-stuff/feed?page=0…
That “investigation” is so full of obvious BS that there is no reason to believe any of it. The Pirates spend more than 2 times as much as the Braves on administration, staff, travel, development, draft, international, stadium ops, analytics and other non-payroll related expenses? Give me a freaking break.
You want to know what team’s ACTUAL revenue and expenses are? Look at the shareholder reports for the Braves and Blue Jays. Those are publicly available to everyone.
Until then Nutting, you should shut down this burner account. We know who you are and that you are lying.
Richard you are the reason abortion should be legal
Read the investigation into the Pirates finances for yourself.
dkpittsburghsports.com/team/site-stuff/feed?page=0…
I know this was click bait I’m just here for the comments. Can’t imagine what the hell 9 paragraphs were needed for this headline.
Baseballs are round
Water is wet
And Paul Skenes isn’t going anywhere anytime soon
Why would he while he’s still cheap? And even after that he might get signed. This is a once in a lifetime talent even cheap teams these days open up the wallets. Wouldn’t be shocked if he gets signed to an extension in the next year.
I’ll save you guys some time and give you some more articles you can write up though.
“Arod not coming out of retirement”
“Jose Altuve still not tall enough to ride at six flags”
“Tim Anderson and Jose Bautista not looking to start UFC careers”
Grass is green ah question (tiktok ahh comment) Gurt: yo sybau
? Move on!! Not going anywhere! When salary cap comes in next year, evey team must spend at least 130 million!We’re back in! Come on MLB do something!! You brought in dh, and interleague play !! Both su…..k,it can be done! Playball!
Of course they won’t trade him! The Pirates’ front office isn’t completely dumb, but they should still be revamped.
They aren’t? Sure fooled me.
Would be smart to trade him. They wouldn’t unfortunately.
Skenes is like the Pirates’ only positive at the moment.
You always say that Nutting is bad at marketing.
That would be awful for marketing.
He’s marketing to an historically bad market for baseball.
Doesn’t matter now. Wasted 2 years. Only 2 years left. Maybe 3 but hopefully it’s only 2. If someone gives you fair value you have to trade him. They won’t and that’s a problem.
They should hire Al Avila….
There is about as much chance of Skenes getting traded as there is the Colts leaving Baltimore.
Anthony Mayer
There’s no way for Nutting to low ball Skenes, right?
He can’t realistically argue for only paying Skenes fractions if his value because “reasons”…. And he won’t spent the money he’ll he forced to… so trade Skenes… and sell the team…
He can low ball him. Would be a mistake because he will lose the arbitration hearing. So he won’t low ball him.
I can’t help but keep thinking about how the A’s pulled this kinda B.S. right up until the league penalized/censured them or whatever and they suddenly out of nowhere signed players to competitive contracts, signed veterans and gave their prospects healthy extensions.
Why can’t the MLB do this kind of thing to Nutting? I think there’s enough evidence. I know they signed Bryan Reynolds to that weirdly not-exactly-cheap-but-not-exactly-competitive 8 year $106.75M extension, but to me, that’s actually strong evidence they are low balling their players, because any other team would have given him at least $120M if not $132M etc. for that same length of time.
Across the board, Nutting is cheaper than cheap while not being a broke team owner and capitalizing on the revenue sharing model from the league.
I just think everything about the Pirates needs a revamp and it’s got nothing to do with the location.
Unless we discover that regardless of the rest of the team, Skenes is signed to like 17 years/$731M or something…. I don’t think there’s any way to justify letting Nutting continue to run this team this way.
The Pirates LOST money in 2024 and Nutting did not make a profit..
dkpittsburghsports.com/team/site-stuff/feed?page=0…
In 2023, theywere 26th of 30 in total revenue.
In 2015, when they went to the playoffs for the third straight year and won the second most games in MLB (98), they were 9th of the 15 NL teams in attendance.
In the early 1990s, they could not sell out NL Championship Series games.
In 1979, when the Pirates Won the World Series, they were TENTH of Twelve NL teams in attendance.
Pittsburgh is now, and always has been, a bad market for baseball.
Richard thinks DK had full access to financial records and would be able to know how to calculate the data.
Richard doesn’t understand basic demographics.
In 2023, they were 26th of 30 in total revenue.
In 2015, when they went to the playoffs for the third straight year and won the second most games in MLB (98), they were 9th of the 15 NL teams in attendance.
In the early 1990s, they could not sell out NL Championship Series games.
In 1979, when the Pirates Won the World Series, they were TENTH of Twelve NL teams in attendance.
Pittsburgh is now, and always has been, a bad market for baseball.
Kovacevic and his team of paid investigators had access to the team’s complete internal financial records.
Given the team’s historically dismal attendance, there’s no reason to believe that Nutting is making much of a profit, if any.
No they didn’t
Pirates contribute more $ into the pot than A. You don’t Nutting would not meet the criteria to get his league $. That’s the top priority.
I love that the Pirates’ blatant attempt (aren’t they all) at service time manipulation blew up in their faces. Good for Skenes that he gets out of that disaster of an organization a year earlier. Pirates’ fans deserve him, but Nutting sure doesn’t. Imagine having Skenes & Jones going into the offseason and doing NOTHING to improve. Nutting shouldn’t be able to show his face in that town.
The Pirates LOST money in 2024 and Nutting did not make a profit.
In 2023, the Pirates ranked 26th of 30 in total revenue.
Pittsburgh is now, and always has been, a bad market for baseball.
dkpittsburghsports.com/team/site-stuff/feed?page=0…
Good Nutting is stupid if he lost $. Stupid people shouldn’t have $.
“Staff members leaving DK Pittsburgh Sports after Deadspin report alleging misconduct.
Dejan Kovacevic’s site has always experienced turnover, but things only seem to be getting worse.”
Yeah, not a source you should be quoting.
Nutting self proclaimed fighter for small markets. If he was losing $ he would open his books and to multiple national more known journalist. Instead he does everything he can to keep as much of his books hidden. Guys stealing so much $ he doesn’t want anyone to know.
Nutting pockets his yearly $69 million and laughs.
Aren’t the Pirates already rebuilding?
Gary No.You have to have something built in the first place to be able to rebuild.
Trade Tarik Skubal for Skenes
If Detroit includes 3 top 50 prospects with him sure.
Tigers get scenes…pirates get meadows, colt Keith keider montero ty madden, Troy Melton, the catching prospect the tigers got for Flaherty and justice bigbie
Best the Tigers just keep that garbage because it isn’t getting Skenes.
Skenes will be traded when his arbitration $ get too expensive for Nutting so it will be well before he becomes a free agent.
The Pirates told their lone star back in the 50s Ralph Kiner that we can finish in last place with or without you.
He was soon traded since he wanted a raise for leading MLB in HRs.
Same situation with Skenes. If they keep him or not they will still finish in last place.
If the Pirates continue to lose money – as they did in 2024 – they should trade Skenes before he becomes too expensive.
If they are losing $ it’s because of reckless spending. They aren’t spending it on payroll.
Fire everyone in scouting and analytics and every assistant VP director of whatever because the entire staff of hundreds of employees is doing worse than I am. There’s no data that says giving Pham 4m was the best move.
They lost money because Pittsburgh is an historically bad market for baseball.
Fake news
Pirates don’t have much to ‘blow up’
What they would blow up is the young future. Reynolds, Cruz and Horwitz are probably the only MLB players of value out side of Skenes.
If the Position players show any semi-respectable offense at the break then ride it out and hope the starters continue to be decent. claw their way to 70 wins and spend “big” on a couple average+ bats on 1-3 year contracts for ’26.
if the position players stink it up the rest of the season dump BC before the end of the season.
I’d just put Nutting as the GM. Might as well. Can’t be much worse.
Ferguson Heaney have value and will be traded.
Bednar IKF maybe not as much but will be traded.
Santana the most and could should be traded.
Keller could should be traded and can get a great prospect or good player.
Falter has value. Bart Davis Canario Gonzales Endy would bring back something.
Ferguson won’t bring back much as a rental that has a short track record of success.
Heaney would likely be able to get more out of, however is also a rental that won’t bring back much.
Bednar wont’ get a pack of gum.
IKF, a +/-10 bat with good defense would bring back less than Heaney as a rental
Santana could bring back something pretty decent
Keller could bring back a fair prospect. Decent mid rotation guy who gives you innings. a top 100 guy and some change probably.
Falter I’d almost trade for over Keller if money was an issue. Falter has done rather well since coming to pittsburgh on a cheap and controled contract.
Bart has some decent value and control at a premium position.
A healthy N. Gonzales also has some decent value.
Endy and Davis only value really is on a change of scenery trade
Canario I don’t have much of an opinion on yet as far as value.
If they where to trade most of them the return wouldn’t be too exciting. Skenes of course would probably bring back anything the pirates would ask for especially a desperate contender.
Really though… If the pirates ever wanted to spend.. Skenes is probably the best option to spend the money on that they have had the past couple decades. Assuming the pirates are making some money.. an ohtani type contract with a great deal of it differed the team could probably pull off if they could convince Paul they are actually trying to win. Not going to happen but If they where ever thinking about it….
Different definition of exciting return. Most trade deadline trades are exciting. Most Cherington trades are exciting. I expect Cherington to bring in some real talent at deadline.
Question- This is the seventh year that Bednar has been in the majors but I think that the first two were partial years.I think that after seven years you become a free agent but if the first two were half years do the Pirates still have one year of control?
Need to be full years minus a few weeks. 6 full years service time you become free agent. 5.8 etc doesn’t count has to be full 6. Bednar won’t be free agent until after 2026 season. But needs to go at deadline if he is doing alright. Pirates would need to pay him 8m or so. Can’t bet on him being good enough to pay him that.
It speaks volumes about this franchise that the question is as valid as it is.
@ cwizzy6, It speaks volumes about the posters that they take the question seriously at this time.
I think the entire Dwight in the Office garage sale day scenario would be cool. Take an extreme asset like Skenes and max out the return on assets already in pro ball. Flip all your top picks as soon as possible and load up. Why not…sure. Nothing else outside of firing Nutting out of a cannon has worked yet.